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wol
Thanks again, Dan!

Back to the GP38s... I haven't notice anything different between the GP38s and the AC versions. So, I guess to get the 38s, I could also do the 38X and 38AC variants. I think I can get the electrical cabinents from DW or DA, if Atlas doesn't include them with the undecorated units.

[wolvie]
IMhauler
[QUOTE=Converted Post]Originally posted by Shane Stoddard

Just my two cents here. I have been reading this topic and feel the need to let the cat out of the bag. My wife and I have formed a new company called Miniature Railway Foundries.
We will be constructing the most amazing trains you have ever seen.
The first one off the line will be the SD38-2. They will be stockpainted in SP,UP,UPY, EJ&E,and BN.
The following will be stock equipment:
Operating grade controlled radiator and dynamic brake fans with their individual motors. Die cast double clasp sideframes (Pewter), with floating journals.
Photo-milled brass and stainless steel shell with all doors on the long hood functional. Operating brass knuckle couplers, operating drop steps, MUable air hoses. Reinforced Cannon and Company cabs with sliding side windows and opening doors. Illuminated gauges, head end device, and speedometer in the cab.
Digital grade and voltage controlled turbo (and it sounds like a real EMD turbo!) We are trying to add horns!
Multi level radiator grills and fan grills (stainless steel). Die cast dynamic brake section (pewter).
Engineers and two left seats swivel.
Operating gyralights, including emergency red when the train is stopped in under three seconds.
And more!
The CAD went to Indiana Micro-etch today and we should have them back in two weeks. If all goes well, we should have trains in less than a month.
Oh yah! Proto-Power West drive mechanisms.
SD39 is right behind the 38-2, then SD40 ,SD40A, SD40X
We are re-engineering the Athearn -2 Trucks to take Fexicoil sideframes so that cab interiors can be installed. (Yes we moved the center axle to center). All units will have correct axle centers, and detailed to the absolute hilt!


See ya soon--our web site will be WWW.MRFoundries.com It will be up soon.

Later

Shane



I wonder what ever happened with that... I'd like to pique this fellas brain with some questions.
wol
Try his email from his profile.

I too would like to know if it would be feasible to make some switchers such as the NW5, the SW900, SW1200 and a tooled GP28M. Possibly also a GP39-2 and a limited edition BL20-2.

Keep us posted.

Ohh, I also decided to just drop the other 4 SDP40s and go with 2 for the roster instead.

[wolvie]
wol
Dan,

More BN kitbash questions...

How would I go about getting an ex-LN SD35 to be a BN SD38P?? I am choosing the LN units, as the Southern units would have high-noses.

Also, starting points for TEUBC6s and ETs?

I know someone has a B30-7A shell, but cannot remember who. I need 4 of those for my BN roster. I wonder how much modification they would need to fit an Athearn powered chassis.

TIA.

[wolvie]
IMhauler
[QUOTE=Converted Post]Originally posted by wolv



I know someone has a B30-7A shell, but cannot remember who. I need 4 of those for my BN roster. I wonder how much modification they would need to fit an Athearn powered chassis.

TIA.

[wolvie]



Wolv, Atlas has B30-7s coming out dont forget. I thought maybe you were thinking of Railpower as far as the B30-7 Shell, but checked my 2003 Walthers and they have a C30-7. So dont know who had or has a B30-7 but after you figure in time, details, etc, probably spend as much as the Atlas one. Just thought I'd remind you in case you forgot.
danraitz
Wolv,

For BN's B30-7A you will have to use a B23-7, either from Atlas or one of the old Rail Power shells. A standard B30-7 shell would be wrong for a B30-7A, the "A" designates that this locomotive is powered by a 12 cylinder prime mover versus a 16 cylinder.

Dan
wol
Dan and Paul,


I thought the A's meant no cabs. Ooops!

So what are your thoughts on the SD38Ps and the TEUBC6s?

With Atlas coming out with the B30-7s, I might get a couple for the BN, but they did not have many of those to begin with, so it might be just a waste of time for adding to the BN. Maybe get some of those for the ATSF/BNSF fleet instead. Or did the MOPAC have these? Conrail??

I know both of those roads had the B23-7.

Now, they just need to reissue their C30-7, and I would be in business with many roads: BN, ATSF, MOPAC, Conrail, etc.

[wolvie]
IMhauler
[QUOTE=Converted Post]Originally posted by wolv



Now, they just need to reissue their C30-7, and I would be in business with many roads: BN, ATSF, MOPAC, Conrail, etc.

[wolvie]



Thats what I'm waiting for. Patience is always rewarded.

Wolv, there was a B30-7, B30-7A. The BN was the only RR to own B30-7ABs which are the cabless units. I'm not 100% positive how many BN really had, but I had read they only had 3 of these B30-7ABs.

Now the fun part. B30-7ABs must have had varying arrangements of grilles as did the C30-7s. I'm not sure if there was optional internal equipment but... well here are some pics of two B30-7ABs with different grilles (I did notice the different roadnumbers, 41xx and 40xx, one of them might be a wrecked B30-7 and mislabelled as B30-7AB? 4117 IS a B30-7AB though.)



Now heres a BN C30-7 for grille comparison.

A UP C30-7


For kitbashing a B30-7AB, ifn it were me I'd start with this.

8043 Southern (Black/Imitation Aluminum/Gold) #3982
from the upcoming Atlas release.
You could add the extra grilles to this unit (Hi-Tech Details makes them), and it has a highnose so you could add a smokey valley utility cab to it, dab on some paint and viola! (do I make it sound overly easy? tongue.gif) Ok, the sills a little different so you'd have to fix that, and you'd have to work up four handrail stanchions... but it's where I'd start.
Comparing the Atlas B30-7 loco to their B23-7, frankly I dont see any differences... between roadnames and phases yeah, but not a straight comparison of phase 1 to phase 1. look the same to me.
danraitz
The main spotting differences between the B23-7 and the B30-7 is in the number of engine compartment doors. The B23-7 has 6 per side whereas the B30-7 has 8. This relates to the size of engine, 12 cylinder vrs 16).
wol
Paul,

The BN version known as a B30-7A is a cabless unit. There was no such thing as a B30-7AB. I think you are thinking about B powerbooster type units of normal diesel versions, such as GP38-2B, or SD40-2B or GP9B. Those are all normal versions of cabbed unit diesels, converted to cabless booster units.

I thought someone made a conversion shell for the B30-7A. Which was why I asked, what chassis would be used for that, if someone could remember the name of the company that made the conversion shell.

I know I have seen it somewhere.

The BN had 120 B30-7A and ONLY 8 B30-7, which is what Atlas is releasing. I didn't see where I could even have ONE B30-7 in my BN roster, since I have gone with the new formula of 10 actual units, equals 1 on my roster.

I can see getting the Atlas B30-7, but only IF ATSF/BNSF, Conrail or NS had them. I doubt SP-DRGW or MRL had them, and I doubt the MKT or WP had them. Which are the ONLY other roads I am concentrating on acquiring for, in addition to the ROCK and BN (and BN fallen flags).

I was told I could get the BLI C30-7s for the same price as Atlas Master series, but I have YET to see that. Besides, I need at least 8 C30-7s for the BN and 2 for ATSF.

[wolvie]
IMhauler
Wolv, not so. a few railroads had B30-7As, the Southern had B30-7A1's as well. These had cabs. The external difference Dan mentioned I had forgotten about, I realized that too when I was considering turning a B30 into a C30 and the trucks wouldn't clear.

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel22.html This page lists *some* of the variants, if not all. Theres only one B30-7AB listed because, as I had read, only 3 cabless ABs were ever manufctured.
The A designated the prime mover cylinder variation, whereas the B (rare in this case) denotes the cabless units.
Smokey Valley makes both a Hinose conversion and a "cabless" utility cab for these units. Search walthers website under superdetailing parts using "GE conversion" and it should bring it up.
danraitz
Wolv,

The TEBC6's were all built using SD9's. So, that would also be your starting point. Just take a P2K SD9 and trash everything above the walkways, then rebuilt the carbody and cab from scratch.

As for the SD38P's rebuilt from SD35's here are a couple of photos that I borrowed and modified to show you what the main conversion points are.




Dan
wol
Dan,

Thanks for the help and pics.

I am still lost and confused on this B30-7A thing with Paul.

Several of my Burlington Northern Motive Power Annuals say that the BN B30-7A are cabless units, and provide pictures of each one, and EACH ONE is a cabless unit. What other railroads did, I am not concerned about. I was ONLY concerned with the BN. Their designation of their cabless units is known as a B30-7A and they list 120 of them, and 8 B30-7s, which show cabs.

This information is confirmed by Charles Biel and from his own www.trainpix.com/BN website. His BN roster also states the information and the pics as proof.

Unit designations and models vary from railroad to railroad. The GP39-2 of the BN is MUCH MUCH different than the GP39-2 of the MKT, and is a different phase version than that of the ATSF's. When I said no such thing as a B30-7AB existed, I meant the BN exclusively.

I do not know how we got on a different railroad's tangent, since most, if not all of this discussion has always been of BN units.

So, I do hope we got that cleared up.

I will try the SVRP site and see if they have this cabless B30-7A shell. Again, I KNOW I have seen it somewhere. I am only needing a couple of these B30-7As. The C30-7s will however, be a different story. BN had 241 of these, and I think 8 should suffice for the roster. They only used up to 6 of these for a coal train, and I can have the other two in reserve or for helper service, etc. biggrin.gif

[wolvie]
IMhauler
ok Wolv. lol

BN had 120 B30-7s, this total number consisted of B30-7s, B30-7As (if they had any) and B30-7ABs. I'm not sure if Bn actually had any B30-7As other than the cabless units. The cabless ones got named 7ABs. If your book wants to call them B30-7As, thats fine because thats what they are, except cabless so the B was added on for Booster unit.

B30-7s and B30-7As are technically different locomotives under all those body panels. two different sized prime movers as Dan said. Many railroads employed B30-7s, some employed B30-7As, but as far as my reading has told me Burlington Northern was the only railroad to even ORDER cabless units from GE, and so to be able to tell the difference between the -7As (on paper) the cabless units were called B30-7ABs. The only difference between a -7A and -7AB is the AB is cabless and was designated so that you can tell the difference without havign to look at the unit. Thats the point of designating them to begin with.

Its the exact same thing with the C30-7s; there are C30-7s, C30-7As, C30-S7 (or Super Sevens) but nobody ever ordered cabless units so a C30-7AB never existed (except on my freelance RR). The Central Michigan has 2 or 3 ex BN B30-7ABs trotting around MI. There are photos of them on fallen flags. I dont remember what they are designated as under the CM though.

here from wikipedia: A change to the original B30-7 was using the 12 cylinder FDL rated at 3000 horsepower, resulting in a B30-7A, B30-7A1 and a B30-7AB. B30-7As were built only for the Missouri Pacific. B30-7A1s were built only for the Southern Railway. Cabless B30-7AB were built only for the Burlington Northern Railroad.
danraitz
Wolv,

In the 1980-1991 BN Annual there is an article about BN's B30-7A's on pages 102-105.

For an excellent modeling article, just get copies of the March 1991 and April 1991 issues of Mainline Modeler. In them David Bontrager takes you through the steps on building these babies.

p.s. The designation "B30-7AB" was never a GE or RR one. It appears to have been an invention of either the railfan community or model railroading press (we are damn good at making up these things).

Dan
IMhauler
[QUOTE=Converted Post]Originally posted by danraitz

Wolv,


p.s. The designation "B30-7AB" was never a GE or RR one. It appears to have been an invention of either the railfan community or model railroading press (we are damn good at making up these things).

Dan



Interesting Dan, I had thought it was a GE designation. either way I think using AB eliminates a lot of confusion between BN and Mopac units. but thats my view of it is all.
wol
Dan,

I THANK YOU very much for your reply. At least someone can help me straighten out Paul. biggrin.gif

I also pointed out to him that the numbers he got from www.rrpicturearchives.com are wrong.

I hope that this site gets their roster information correct in the future.

Again, in case anyone missed this, the numbers are:


BN:

B30-7 8 units (numbers 5485-5492)
B30-7A 120 units (numbers 4000-4119)
C30-7 241 units (numbers 5000-5141 and 5500-5599)
B32-8 3 units (numbers 5497-5499)



*NOTE: I am confused about the annuals saying it had 241 units for C30-7, and the numbers showing clearly 242 units...

Now on to bigger and better things.


Dan,

I just want to clarify this. The GP39 variants and the GP40 variants:

GP39E 70 units (numbers 2750-2778 and 2900-2940)
GP39M 65 units (numbers 2800-2834 and 2870-2899)
GP39V 25 units (numbers 2960-2984)
GP40E 06 units (numbers 3550-3555)
GP40G 10 units (numbers 3075-3084)
GP40M 24 units (numbers 3500-3523)


GP39E Basically a GP30 (with the rear middle fan removed) or a GP35, new paint and the horns moved to the rear. The trucks replaced with Blomberg-M type trucks. The E stands for EMD, as they are the rebuilders.

Correct?


GP39M Basically a GP30 (with rear middle fan removed) or GP35 with the horns moved to the rear and a new electrical cabinent on the engineer's side, also with 1991 paint. Again, the trucks replaced with the Blomberg-M type trucks. Rebuilt by Morrison-Knudsen, which is why it has the M designation.

Correct?


GP39V Basically a GP35 with the horns moved to the rear, the new electrical cabinent and the 1991 paint. The trucks replaced with Blomberg-M type trucks. Rebuilt by VMV at their Paducah, KY facility, thus the V designation.

Correct?


GP40E Basically a GP40 updated with an electrical cabinent on the same side as the 39 variants, horns moved to the rear and the new 1991 paint. Again, the E stands for EMD as the rebuilder.

Correct?


GP40G Basically a GP40 updated again with the electrical cabinent and the new 1991 paint. Oddly enough, the horns were never moved to the rear, at least not in any of the pics I have seen. All the G variants were ex-BO units. The G stands for GATX, who leased the units to BN.

Correct?


GP40M A GP40 (some with new 1991 paint, some not), with electrical cabinent and horns moved to the rear. The M stands for Morrison-Knudsen as the rebuilder.

Correct?


Just want to make sure about all of these before I go do anything.

Now then, starting points for GP39s would be? I was thinking the P2K for the GP30, but wouldn't a Bachmann GP30 shell do just as good? I noticed Walthers has the Bachmann GP30s for about $25 this month. The other starting point, I bet one could use the new Athearn retooled GP35 shells. In fact, if the Athearns come with the Blomberg-M trucks, then the ONLY thing needed to be done is move the horns to the rear, add the electrical cabinent and repaint them.

In fact, all the GP39 variants had the GP35 rebuilds, so I could eliminate the P2K all together and just go with 6 GP35 Athearn RTRs. This also saves me the headache of having to remove the middle rear fan on those P2K or Bachmann shells.

On the 40s, not much needed. I figure just 6 Atlas GP40 undecs. I think I have seen the electrical cabinent available from DW or Cannon. I already have the GATX lease decals for the two GP40Gs.

I know Jon Grant did a variant of each of the 39s earlier this year, but I cannot seem to locate the darn posts. LOL!

Jon, if you are watching, please chime in.

Thanks again guys.


[wolvie]
danraitz
Paul,
Sometimes there is a lot of confusion on what designation to use when identifying certain locomotives. Case in point take the GP39-2, to EMD they are all just GP39-2's but to railfans and model railroaders there are phase1, phase1a, phase2a, phase2b, phase2c and phase3 GP39-2's. This practice of ID'ing loco's with phase's started, if I remember correctly, with the editor of "Extra2200" back in the seventies to help the railfan differentiate between production changes to a certain locomotive. While this practice helps a lot in the ID'ing of lomocmotive models we cannot forget the fact that these are not "offical" designations. So while GE never called their cabless B30-7A a B30-7AB there is nothing wrong if we want too.
Dan
wol
Dan's right, Paul.

I have some units on the MWEX roster designated SD40-4s, as they have had GPS and other computer gadgets installed in them. Heck, I even have 2 SD40-2ACs. LOL!

Dan,

Can you confirm those variants I listed yesterday? (or was it last night)...

[wolvie]
IMhauler
Dan,
I agree with you. Admittedly I had thought the AB was a GE designation. but either way, I think using the AB causes a lot less confusion. I was confused because according to various sources only Mopac bought B30-7As, and BN bought what some of us would call B30-7ABs... what BN called them only BN fans will know.

People invented such thigns as phases and B designators for a reason, to make life easier and eliminate confusion.

Wolv, I don't want to make you grimmace, but I didnt take info from just one source. There were 2 or 3 websites that say BN has 120 B30-7A(cool.gifs. The onles that were incorrect were for the B30-7s, C30-7s, C36-7s, etc. I actually never researched the the others before that one website I gave you a link to.

[shrugs]
wol
Well Paul,

I have to trust Mr Robert C. Del Grosso and the BN Railroad, rather than unrelated sites that just have information. They are the ones that created the Burlington Northern Motive Power Annuals, and continue to produce the BNSF Annuals.

I also asked the various BN lists, with people that actually worked for the BN for reference information. They all come up the same. Besides, I posted the roster numbers to show that they indeed had that many (with the exception of the 241 to 242 units that I am confused about the C30-7s).

So, the websites that have that information, need to either change their information or go back and look at their sources.

You can cross-reference my information with the following sources if you like:

http://www.trainpix.com/BN

http://www.greatnorthernpacific.com

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/BNSFnorthwest
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/BNlist
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/friendsofthebn


[wolvie]
danraitz
Wolv,
I looked through all the variants for the GP39's and GP40's. It looks good except for one thing, to the best of my knowledge none of these rebuilds were converted to Blomberg M style trucks. The Blomberg Type-M truck was first introduced under the GP50 and have been used under all new GP's since then (with a few minor modifications). All of these rebuilds are riding on their original Blomberg trucks, granted those that were orginially built with AAR trucks did have their trucks replaced during rebuilding.

Dan
wol
Dan,

Thanks for the confirmation!

See that shows you how much I still have to go on learning diesels.

I thought the Blomberg trucks on all these units were converted from the AAR trucks, and since the units were from 1991, thought it was the Blomberg-M style. I shall have to do some research on truck frames now, so that I know the difference. I do know when I see HTCR what those look like, and the AAR what those look like too.

Ok, so I was wrong on the trucks, but everything else looks great then. Cool! Now, I can begin to scrimp and save for 12 Athearn RTR GP35s and 6 Atlas GP40s. biggrin.gif

[wolvie]
danraitz
Wolv,

heres a photo that I scanned from Kalmbachs Diesel Cyclopedia showing the differences between the Blomberg and Blomberg Type-M trucks.



Dan
wol
Thanks Dan.

This helps.

[wolvie]
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